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25 June 2007 @ 07:41 pm
BY THE GODDESS!  

 Well, isn't that just like a woman.

Earth goddess, X-men Leader, Morlock champion, rebel punk, and master thief......but we all know what really matters.

Fantastic Four  #547
Written by: Dwayne McDuffie
Art by: Paul Pelletier

!

"You can tell Michael Collins that my hair is completely natural."
"This is NOT  a weave!"





Please , let that character be a skrull. I call on the goddess of comics and the saint of fangirls- let that character be a skrull...
 
 
 
ill-literatefourel on June 28th, 2007 06:21 pm (UTC)
Slight bit of clarification-- comics should be inclusive, not exclusive. Black teams aren't aimed only at a black audience any more than the Avengers is aimed only at a white audience. I wasn't exactly suggesting separate but equal. There is no reason why a white reader can't appreciate a book with an all-black cast, and vice versa.

Black characters should be black, inside and out. If a comic is written with an all black team (which should happen) then it would be perfectly reasonable for the writer to assume the primary demographic is black and any situations requiring insight to black culture/lifestyle will be understood by them.

But, it won't get more support if when the characters appear in other books, you still need that inside edge to understand them. Otherwise the cretins go "OMG! Black peoples taking over our comics!" and others go, "I don't get it." (thus never caring about the character). Admittedly even if it's done so it can be understood the cretins will probably still panic but the people who aren't fearful of black culture are more likely to support the character.
[snip]
So I agree it's more important Storm and Black Panther be written as black characters, I'd also prefer it that when they appear in non-black comics that the writer gives the non-blacks a small hand understanding them.


Your statements here don't track for me. You're saying that black characters should be black, inside and out, but tamp down the blackness when they aren't in a book featuring all black characters?

There's a few quotes about that that I think are relevant. One's even from a comic.
"This little light of mine. I'm gonna let it shine."
"Black is black."
"We can't afford to be ashamed any more. We can't strap down our wings or hide our strange eyes and our brilliant minds..."

What you're suggesting is nuts. Should a female character tone back the feminism when she's around a group of dudes? Should an activist type back off with the social commentary because it might confuse someone unfamiliar with the ideas?

No.

You don't strap down your wings because you might make somebody afraid. You don't play dumb because you might make someone angry. And you definitely do not stop being yourself because someone might not understand you.
Jkarabellajkarabella on June 28th, 2007 06:47 pm (UTC)
No I'm black is black, just in order to be inclusive sometimes comics have to include a few hints for the people who don't understand some parts.

Storm doesn't need to be any less black around white characters, nor does Black Panther. The author just may have to consider that the audience might need help to understand it.

Because honestly, if a comic makes me more aware of black culture then that is good. I am glad this incident happened because now I know a little bit more.

I do not think that because you're misunderstood you should hide yourself or bow your head, but I think that if you don't like being misunderstood then sometimes you need to give people a hand understanding you.

That's all I wanted out of these scene, a little more of a hint that the reason Ororo snapped like she did is because she and her black female friends are sick of people taking an unnecessary interest in her hair.

It's obvious to black audiences, because to you that is the reality, you see it every day. To people who don't deal with that, we couldn't see the simple connection. So to make it more inclusive, I would preferred a hint in the story, or a caption, even a line from Thing to indicate it's common issue and not one particular to Storm.

I probably still wouldn't have enjoyed it 1/10th as much as a black woman would, but that's okay because I'd get to learn something out of it.
ill-literatefourel on June 29th, 2007 02:02 am (UTC)
You're missing my point. I'll try to boil it down as best I can.

Black readers are expected to know the white references in comics.

Me, I didn't hear a Johnny Cash song until I was 22, I didn't know Pink Floyd were the "We don't need no education" guys until high school, and I saw my first episode of Battlestar Galactica around 3 weeks ago. If these subjects came up in comics, I'd be expected to just get the joke or keep it moving.

But, if something black-oriented comes up in comics, be it slang, a joke about weave, or even three black people in one room, it is threatening and hard to get and so on.

That disparity should not be there, and pussyfooting around and making things easier for someone who doesn't get it won't do anything but allow them to continue not getting it, and not even know that there is an it to not get.

If I have to ask someone what "frak" means when I'm reading a comic, there's no reason why someone else should not have to ask what gully means.

Anything else is uneven ground.
Jkarabellajkarabella on June 29th, 2007 10:11 am (UTC)
No I don't miss the point, I just don't believe two wrongs make a right.

If you're writing a story and anything in it is misunderstood by a large portion of your audience, to the extent many read it backward wrong, you done a bad job. It doesn't matter if it's black lingo, white cultural values, pseudo science, real science or hypothetical political theory. If your audience doesn't follow it, it's bad writing: Period.

Note: Nowhere did I say the joke had to be pussyfooted, or the characters unblacked. These are things you have invented because... apparently you don't want me to get the joke.

That's just mean and doesn't help anyone.
ill-literatefourel on June 29th, 2007 11:53 pm (UTC)
If you're writing a story and anything in it is misunderstood by a large portion of your audience, to the extent many read it backward wrong, you done a bad job.

Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn is widely banned for being offensive and racist. People read it backward wrong, but I do not believe he did a bad job. I think that a lot of people don't understand things until they're taught otherwise. Sometimes, it's a lot of trouble to teach them, but it's worth broadening those horizons.

I mean, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, and Chris Tucker have made a career off what, on the surface, is "Black people walk like this, white people walk like THIS," but their jokes, when given that second glance, impart some stuff about life and race that aren't immediately clear in our day to day life.

Note: Nowhere did I say the joke had to be pussyfooted, or the characters unblacked. These are things you have invented because... apparently you don't want me to get the joke.

I didn't invent it. I read this:
But, it won't get more support if when the characters appear in other books, you still need that inside edge to understand them.
and it says to me that the inside edge is the problem, and should be reduced or toned down. That inside edge is what makes the joke in my mind. I can't think of another way to play the FF scene without that inside edge and still have it be true to life.

I'm not trying to be mean or whatever. I prefer it when people laugh at the same jokes I do because they "get" it, either because they lived it or someone clued them in. Inside jokes don't have to be exclusive, you know?
Jkarabellajkarabella on June 30th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC)
I mean, Dave Chappelle, Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, and Chris Tucker have made a career off what, on the surface, is "Black people walk like this, white people walk like THIS," but their jokes, when given that second glance, impart some stuff about life and race that aren't immediately clear in our day to day life.

Indeed, Eddie Murphy also had similar routines when he was a stand up. In all cases though, they're appreciated by wide audiences because they start with something the audience can relate to and build from there.

In regards to Mark Twain, yes lots of authors get pretty much deliberately mistaught for the point of fashionable views. Lots of people also disagree where the lines are. That is the first time I've heard he's taught as racist (I have heard of similar authors being treated as such including an Australian cartoonist)

I'm not trying to be mean or whatever. I prefer it when people laugh at the same jokes I do because they "get" it, either because they lived it or someone clued them in. Inside jokes don't have to be exclusive, you know?
Ah. Okay, my view is if Marvel could find such a storyteller who could make that two scene as exciting a white man as it was for a black girl then they would be getting nominations for Pullitzer prizes.

They can't though, it's not possible to have that speak to people with white privilege as strongly because we've never had to put up with it. What I'd prefer though is I "get" by I understand the rational.

This this case, all I needed to understand is that Storm is pissed because she and her black friends get this crap all the time because of idiots. I probably would have smirked a little and felt it was a fair point, I wouldn't have laughed.

An example being in the Daredevil movie. When Kingpin tells his assistant that he wouldn't understand, Kingpin was raised in the Bronx. My friends and I got the idea and it explained why he made that decision. Some audiences in New York and the Bronx were reported to have all stood up and cheered at the top of their lungs.

As long as I don't need to understand them to follow the basics of the story/character, honestly I have no problem with in jokes staying in. I just can't think of any good examples of such that haven't been badly done at some stage.