You are viewing manstreamcomics

 
 
25 June 2007 @ 07:41 pm
BY THE GODDESS!  

 Well, isn't that just like a woman.

Earth goddess, X-men Leader, Morlock champion, rebel punk, and master thief......but we all know what really matters.

Fantastic Four  #547
Written by: Dwayne McDuffie
Art by: Paul Pelletier

!

"You can tell Michael Collins that my hair is completely natural."
"This is NOT  a weave!"





Please , let that character be a skrull. I call on the goddess of comics and the saint of fangirls- let that character be a skrull...
 
 
( 114 comments — Leave a comment )
Jkarabellajkarabella on June 25th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)
I know comics like to get back to their roots... but when did Marvel decide to go back to 1950s gender roles in Fantastic Four?
Warning: Proximity to me causes adventures.karnythia on June 27th, 2007 02:29 pm (UTC)
What 1950s gender roles? It's a pretty common question and a pretty common reaction.
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 27th, 2007 03:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Reposted because lj is messing up my comments - spiralsheep on June 27th, 2007 05:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 28th, 2007 04:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spiralsheep on June 29th, 2007 11:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 29th, 2007 08:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spiralsheep on June 29th, 2007 09:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 12:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spiralsheep on June 30th, 2007 12:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 11:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments - fourel on June 29th, 2007 02:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourel on June 28th, 2007 02:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 28th, 2007 03:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourel on June 28th, 2007 03:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 28th, 2007 03:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - fourel on June 28th, 2007 04:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 28th, 2007 05:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourel on June 28th, 2007 06:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 28th, 2007 06:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourel on June 29th, 2007 02:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 29th, 2007 10:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourel on June 29th, 2007 11:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jkarabella on June 28th, 2007 04:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fourel on June 28th, 2007 04:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Melony: bunny kills w/braingothwitch on June 25th, 2007 10:07 pm (UTC)
"This is NOT a weave!" (I would add) "I grew it myself!"
The Event Horizon of Awful Thingsthetathx1138 on June 25th, 2007 11:09 pm (UTC)
Are you fucking kidding me? Is Storm going to start telling Ben not to "get up in her grille" next? And, dammit, when will they answer the most throbbing question in comics for real (that being: with Storm, does the carpet match the curtains?)
LurkerWithout: Bag catlurkerwithout on June 26th, 2007 06:20 am (UTC)
Ben later picks her up by the hair. Then Black Panther walks in. Hilarity!

I like McDuffie normally, but I'm wondering why hes cribbing from the reject pile for Yes, Dear...
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 26th, 2007 11:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
digital_femme on June 26th, 2007 12:53 pm (UTC)
That scene was the sweetest of validation for me. And is actually based off of a real life situation between Dwayne, his ex-wife and a co-worker.

I've had to fend off some of the rudest of comments from people about my hair. To have people ask how long my real hair is. To have people dig their fingers into it without asking. Storm did what I (and probably a lot of other women) have always wanted to do...snap really hard on the rude people who love to loudly make assumptions and ask rude questions about the appearance of black hair.

Maybe it was out of character to the rest of you, but for me, it was an interesting moment common to some black women, and I appreciate Dwayne for writing the scene.
The Event Horizon of Awful Thingsthetathx1138 on June 27th, 2007 04:58 am (UTC)
Wow? People really do that to you? That's profoundly obnoxious. Why he wrote the scene becomes a lot more clear, but unfortunately, it's still not good writing.

My problem with the scene is that it rings false character-wise. Storm was revered as a goddess, is a heavy-hitter power-wise, is the DAUGHTER of royalty, and is, currently, queen of Wakanda, which is easily the most technologically advanced human civilization on the planet, and dominates a supply of a scarce and precious resource (although under Hudlin's writing, apparantly exposure to vibranium from birth makes one a smug limosine liberal.)

None of that comes into play in the above. That's just not the Storm I know and love, and certainly not a woman holding immense respect and political power (not that I expect the Marvel editorial staff to ever ACKNOWLEDGE this fact, but come on!)
(no subject) - digital_femme on June 27th, 2007 02:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karnythia on June 27th, 2007 02:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spiffystuff on July 5th, 2007 06:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 27th, 2007 05:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 28th, 2007 01:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
Regarding Storm being "Too Black" - (Anonymous) on June 30th, 2007 01:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - salymander on June 30th, 2007 06:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
*shrug* - delux_vivens on July 1st, 2007 05:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: *shrug* - salymander on July 1st, 2007 07:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spiralsheep on June 27th, 2007 02:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 28th, 2007 01:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Pssst - denim_queen on June 27th, 2007 04:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 27th, 2007 04:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 28th, 2007 01:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 28th, 2007 03:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 28th, 2007 04:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 28th, 2007 03:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 29th, 2007 12:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 29th, 2007 01:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 29th, 2007 04:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - delux_vivens on June 29th, 2007 04:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - thetathx1138 on June 30th, 2007 02:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on June 26th, 2007 02:59 pm (UTC)
Actually
You'd be amazed at how many black women are wearing weaves now, this is actually a pretty realistic question for an ignorant bunch of guys like Ben Grimm to ask. I've seen this exact thing happen at my day job.
Humph: ebonbird Storm (punk)spiralsheep on June 27th, 2007 02:34 pm (UTC)
Re: Actually
::nods agreement::

And Ororo, as the self-confident woman she is characterised as now, definitely wouldn't put up with the Thing's foot-in-mouth syndrome without ansering back.
Re: Actually - polymexina on June 27th, 2007 02:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
delux_vivens on June 27th, 2007 04:49 pm (UTC)
Just so we're clear...
Its absolutely no one's' fucking business if a black woman's hair is "real" or not. It doesnt matter if you are 'curious' and despereately 'want to learn'. You want to know? Fine. Doesnt entitle you to being a part of the process. If you weren't there when she was getting it fixed up? Fuck off, to put it politely.

Also not your fucking concern? How much it costs to get done. Or how long it takes.

*settles down*

I think that covers it...
ill-literatefourel on June 28th, 2007 04:22 pm (UTC)
Re: Just so we're clear...
I think it was my cousin who used to answer "Is that your real hair?" with "I paid for it, didn't I?" whether it was weave or not.

That'd end that line of conversation real quick!
~Elegant[Moon & Stars] sCape~tennoarashi on June 27th, 2007 04:58 pm (UTC)
I'm going to agree with digital_femme concerning the scene's writing - it's actually great to see that issue being openly acknowledged.

However, I do have a problem with the scene still and that's the pencilling, especially in that second panel shown (and in subsequent posture Ororo has later). She's not carrying herself with confidence or genuine frustration; it looks like she's pouting and being... well, childish about that. And as happy as I am that Ororo reacted to the criticism as she did, I feel the visual depiction is really detracting from the gravitas she usually has.
Warning: Proximity to me causes adventures.karnythia on June 27th, 2007 05:07 pm (UTC)
She's still human. Trust me someone questioning your hair does not always generate a Miss Manners level response.
(no subject) - tennoarashi on June 27th, 2007 05:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spiralsheep on June 27th, 2007 05:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tennoarashi on June 27th, 2007 05:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karnythia on June 27th, 2007 05:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - lea_hazel on June 28th, 2007 03:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - furikku on June 28th, 2007 04:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
a princess of now: xmen-ororoskywardprodigal on June 27th, 2007 04:59 pm (UTC)
People say rude things about Ororo's hair.

In part, it's because she's black.

The other part, is because she's gorgeous.

The other other part, is because it's white.

I recall her being brainwiped (temporarily) by Mesmer (iirc) and consigned to the carnival along with Piotr and some other x-folk. There were catty white bitches in the audience muttering about her bleaching her hair.

She's being written as a real woman. And real women have catty white folk (and other non-black folk) trying to touch/comment on their hair with alarming regularity. Apparently good manners only go so far when it comes to the appearance of some women in the opinions of way too many people. Good on Hudlin.
The Event Horizon of Awful Thingsthetathx1138 on June 28th, 2007 02:35 am (UTC)
Yep, that was one of the '70s Claremonts. There were also sexist comments from the audience.
(no subject) - skywardprodigal on June 28th, 2007 02:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
kazenefferakazeneffera on June 27th, 2007 06:51 pm (UTC)
My problem isn't so much the fact that she's fending off a comment about her hair vehemently - that's all well and good.

But would Storm really strike that pose while doing it? It's the pose in the second panel that's off for me, rather than the exchange itself.
MANSTREAM COMICS AWARDSmanstreamcomics on June 29th, 2007 10:15 pm (UTC)
Regarding the hair-touching thing: we are reminded, vividly, of how we could practically see "Pickaninny" over Barbara Bush's head when she was fondling the heads of the two little girls evacuated after Katrina.

MANSTREAM COMICS AWARDSmanstreamcomics on June 30th, 2007 03:18 am (UTC)
THE LAST WORD (?)
As the Manstreamer who posted this image, I'll reiterate my original stance: getting worked up over having your hair questioned may be a familiar experience for many African American women, but I find it uncharacteristic of Storm. Once you've shaved your skull into a mohawk, you learn to deal. Of course, you're all welcome to have your own interpretations of the character. Thanks for commenting.

86 comments. On hair. I'm impressed.
delux_vivens on June 30th, 2007 03:56 am (UTC)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?)
I'm impressed.

There's even whole books about black hair, if you're interested.
Warning: Proximity to me causes adventures.karnythia on June 30th, 2007 04:06 am (UTC)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?)
Actually the versatility of African American hair ensures that white people feel entitled to comment on hair texture color and length. Shaving one's head does not negate the invasiveness of the questioning. And learning to deal does not equal not reacting. Are you seriously trying to tell black women who have had similar experiences, and who are saying that the characterization is spot on that they don't know how a black woman would react?
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 11:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - karnythia on June 30th, 2007 12:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 12:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - delux_vivens on June 30th, 2007 07:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 11:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - (Anonymous) on July 4th, 2007 10:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - delux_vivens on June 30th, 2007 06:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - jkarabella on June 30th, 2007 06:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
stop talking crazy talk. - delux_vivens on June 30th, 2007 07:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: stop talking crazy talk. - karnythia on June 30th, 2007 07:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: stop talking crazy talk. - delux_vivens on June 30th, 2007 07:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
ill-literatefourel on June 30th, 2007 05:45 am (UTC)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?)
Once you've shaved your skull into a mohawk, you learn to deal.

Does this rule also count for pregnant women and comments about their post-pregnancy weight? I mean, they've been heavier than usual before, they should be cool with it, right?
(Anonymous) on July 9th, 2007 12:51 pm (UTC)
Re: THE LAST WORD (?)
Maybe you should put aside your privilige and have a think about what people are saying to you.
Brigidshadefell on July 2nd, 2007 05:51 pm (UTC)
In Character, Out of Character
For everyone complaining about Storm acting out of character, think about this for a minute.

For most of Storm's existence, she's been written by white males, right? She now has input from black females who live in the USA as black females and know first hand what black females go through.

Her reaction right now is apparently based directly on the experience and attitude of a black woman.

Is she acting out of character here, or is she finally acting in character? Does she now speak with more authenticity than before?

And just for the record, I'm a white chick with dark blonde hair and black eyebrows. I get a lot of strangers asking me if I dye my hair (when I do, it's very obvious because it's a color not found in nature) or darken my eyebrows. A woman once took my mother to task for putting mascara on me (I was 3) when I wasn't wearing any. When I had waist length hair, strangers would ask to touch it, or would just touch it without asking. Sometimes they'd give it a little tug. There is NOTHING like having your head suddenly jerked backwards because someone you've never met before has decided to pull your hair, just to check to see if it's firmly attached. CLASSY! People asked me if it was real, how long I'd been growing it, how often I got it cut, what my religion was, if I were Amish (because, y'know, Amish people normally wear jeans and Preacher t-shirts), lots of invasive questions. Basically, folks are assholes.

It's interesting to see people addressing Storm with petty, retarded questions about her physical appearance because every woman I know gets those same kind of petty, retarded questions... and men don't. It's also interesting to see how this is handled. I think it's a bit clumsy (it seems to be played for broad domestic humor), but it's a start.
Vinzenz Stemberg: Suguintou!erlkonigvinz on August 16th, 2007 11:35 am (UTC)
Re: In Character, Out of Character
Hahahaha, they don't? THEY DON'T? Hahaha. Oh man, you must not know very many metalheads or punkers. Or ARMA members. It happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME with us. Almost exclusively the domain of older (40+) white women too. I swear if it weren't illegal, I would've genocided all the geriatric whiteys in the NE and midwest areas of the US. Well that and it would take an assload of time to do even if it were.

Ah well, I can content myself with the fact their social security is dwindling, and their medicaid is drying up. Eat my ass, boomers.
And as mentioned elsewhere in this thread by someone else, never had this happen in Europe anywhere. (then again guys with long hair are a lot more common and accepted there, while over here there's some sinister Puritan/corporate wackiness at work) Honestly I think because in their own lives it was so rare they've developed a nervous tic about it and can't resist. At least you can say something snide back. I have to put up with it because "it's unmanly to complain about something so petty." If I don't hide it under a big Texan hat they all come running (more like sidling/waddling) up cooing and awwing over it, wanting to play with it like I'm one of their fucking dollies.

Ya think Götz von Berlichingen put up with this? Saxo Grammaticus? Hermann von Salza? Jacques de Molay? Fuck no! But back then smacking the shit out of annoying/idiotic people wasn't illegal and wouldn't cost you your job. (or the ability to find a new one in my case) Now even basic discipline is illegal, and so you wind up with Bawbwa Walters and Rosie O'.
Re: In Character, Out of Character - shadefell on August 16th, 2007 02:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: In Character, Out of Character - erlkonigvinz on August 17th, 2007 12:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on November 7th, 2007 06:04 am (UTC)
Maybe this issue is specific to Storm, and not all black women
[I hope this isn't too late to comment on.]

I vaguely remember a trade paperback comic with Byrne's work on the X-Men, when Kitty Pryde, Dazzler, and the Hellfire Club were first introduced. (And when Jean/Phoenix started acting bad, by changing Mr. Pryde's mind.) Kitty and Ororo were talking in a restaurant, and Kitty was inquiring about Ororo's hair and eyes. The facts that Ororo has white hair, straight hair, and blue eyes are unusual for black women; I guess that she has them because she's a mutant. So she gets questions that are a variant of what black women get, because of her unique situation. It gets worse for her because of the higher chance that her hair and eyes would be considered fake.
( 114 comments — Leave a comment )