manstreamcomics: BY THE GODDESS!

MANSTREAM COMICS AWARDS (

manstreamcomics) wrote,
@ 2007-06-25 19:41:00

BY THE GODDESS!

Well, isn't that just like a woman.

Earth goddess, X-men Leader, Morlock champion, rebel punk, and master thief......but we all know what really matters.

Fantastic Four #547
Written by: Dwayne McDuffie
Art by: Paul Pelletier

!

"You can tell Michael Collins that my hair is completely natural."
"This is NOT a weave!"

Please , let that character be a skrull. I call on the goddess of comics and the saint of fangirls- let that character be a skrull...

(Post a new comment)

	jkarabella 2007-06-25 05:30 pm UTC (link)
	I know comics like to get back to their roots... but when did Marvel decide to go back to 1950s gender roles in Fantastic Four? (Reply to this) (Thread)

	karnythia 2007-06-27 02:29 pm UTC (link)
	What 1950s gender roles? It's a pretty common question and a pretty common reaction. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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jkarabella, 2007-06-27 03:32 pm UTC

Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

spiralsheep, 2007-06-27 05:09 pm UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

jkarabella, 2007-06-27 05:20 pm UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

delux_vivens, 2007-06-27 05:35 pm UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

jkarabella, 2007-06-27 05:51 pm UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

jkarabella, 2007-06-27 06:03 pm UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

spiralsheep, 2007-06-27 07:10 pm UTC

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jkarabella, 2007-06-27 07:22 pm UTC

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delux_vivens, 2007-06-28 03:22 am UTC

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jkarabella, 2007-06-28 03:56 am UTC

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delux_vivens, 2007-06-28 04:05 am UTC

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jkarabella, 2007-06-28 04:32 am UTC

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spiralsheep, 2007-06-28 02:32 pm UTC

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Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

thetathx1138, 2007-06-28 02:33 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

polymexina, 2007-06-28 03:08 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

delux_vivens, 2007-06-28 03:19 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

jkarabella, 2007-06-28 04:03 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

thetathx1138, 2007-06-28 05:33 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

spiralsheep, 2007-06-28 02:40 pm UTC

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thetathx1138, 2007-06-29 12:23 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

fourel, 2007-06-29 02:10 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

thetathx1138, 2007-06-29 03:55 am UTC

Re: Reposted because lj is messing up my comments -

spiralsheep, 2007-06-29 11:46 am UTC

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spiralsheep, 2007-06-28 02:30 pm UTC

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fourel, 2007-06-29 02:02 am UTC

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fourel, 2007-06-29 11:53 pm UTC

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fourel, 2007-06-28 04:39 pm UTC

	gothwitch 2007-06-25 10:07 pm UTC (link)
	"This is NOT a weave!" (I would add) "I grew it myself!" (Reply to this)

	thetathx1138 2007-06-25 11:09 pm UTC (link)
	Are you fucking kidding me? Is Storm going to start telling Ben not to "get up in her grille" next? And, dammit, when will they answer the most throbbing question in comics for real (that being: with Storm, does the carpet match the curtains?) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	lurkerwithout 2007-06-26 06:20 am UTC (link)
	Ben later picks her up by the hair. Then Black Panther walks in. Hilarity! I like McDuffie normally, but I'm wondering why hes cribbing from the reject pile for Yes, Dear... (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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thetathx1138, 2007-06-26 11:02 am UTC

digital_femme
2007-06-26 12:53 pm UTC (link)

That scene was the sweetest of validation for me. And is actually based off of a real life situation between Dwayne, his ex-wife and a co-worker.

I've had to fend off some of the rudest of comments from people about my hair. To have people ask how long my real hair is. To have people dig their fingers into it without asking. Storm did what I (and probably a lot of other women) have always wanted to do...snap really hard on the rude people who love to loudly make assumptions and ask rude questions about the appearance of black hair.

Maybe it was out of character to the rest of you, but for me, it was an interesting moment common to some black women, and I appreciate Dwayne for writing the scene.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

thetathx1138
2007-06-27 04:58 am UTC (link)

Wow? People really do that to you? That's profoundly obnoxious. Why he wrote the scene becomes a lot more clear, but unfortunately, it's still not good writing.

My problem with the scene is that it rings false character-wise. Storm was revered as a goddess, is a heavy-hitter power-wise, is the DAUGHTER of royalty, and is, currently, queen of Wakanda, which is easily the most technologically advanced human civilization on the planet, and dominates a supply of a scarce and precious resource (although under Hudlin's writing, apparantly exposure to vibranium from birth makes one a smug limosine liberal.)

None of that comes into play in the above. That's just not the Storm I know and love, and certainly not a woman holding immense respect and political power (not that I expect the Marvel editorial staff to ever ACKNOWLEDGE this fact, but come on!)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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digital_femme, 2007-06-27 02:00 pm UTC

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thetathx1138, 2007-06-28 01:57 am UTC

Regarding Storm being "Too Black" - (Anonymous), 2007-06-30 01:37 am UTC

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salymander, 2007-06-30 06:23 am UTC

*shrug* -

delux_vivens, 2007-07-01 05:32 pm UTC

Re: *shrug* -

salymander, 2007-07-01 07:18 pm UTC

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spiralsheep, 2007-06-27 02:31 pm UTC

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thetathx1138, 2007-06-28 01:51 am UTC

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Pssst -

denim_queen, 2007-06-27 04:36 pm UTC

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delux_vivens, 2007-06-27 04:41 pm UTC

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thetathx1138, 2007-06-28 01:46 am UTC

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thetathx1138, 2007-06-30 02:58 pm UTC

	Actually (Anonymous) 2007-06-26 02:59 pm UTC (link)
	You'd be amazed at how many black women are wearing weaves now, this is actually a pretty realistic question for an ignorant bunch of guys like Ben Grimm to ask. I've seen this exact thing happen at my day job. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Actually spiralsheep 2007-06-27 02:34 pm UTC (link)
	::nods agreement:: And Ororo, as the self-confident woman she is characterised as now, definitely wouldn't put up with the Thing's foot-in-mouth syndrome without ansering back. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Actually -

polymexina, 2007-06-27 02:44 pm UTC

Just so we're clear...

delux_vivens
2007-06-27 04:49 pm UTC (link)

Its absolutely no one's' fucking business if a black woman's hair is "real" or not. It doesnt matter if you are 'curious' and despereately 'want to learn'. You want to know? Fine. Doesnt entitle you to being a part of the process. If you weren't there when she was getting it fixed up? Fuck off, to put it politely.

Also not your fucking concern? How much it costs to get done. Or how long it takes.

*settles down*

I think that covers it...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: Just so we're clear... fourel 2007-06-28 04:22 pm UTC (link)
	I think it was my cousin who used to answer "Is that your real hair?" with "I paid for it, didn't I?" whether it was weave or not. That'd end that line of conversation real quick! (Reply to this) (Parent)

tennoarashi
2007-06-27 04:58 pm UTC (link)

I'm going to agree with

digital_femme concerning the scene's writing - it's actually great to see that issue being openly acknowledged.

However, I do have a problem with the scene still and that's the pencilling, especially in that second panel shown (and in subsequent posture Ororo has later). She's not carrying herself with confidence or genuine frustration; it looks like she's pouting and being... well, childish about that. And as happy as I am that Ororo reacted to the criticism as she did, I feel the visual depiction is really detracting from the gravitas she usually has.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	karnythia 2007-06-27 05:07 pm UTC (link)
	She's still human. Trust me someone questioning your hair does not always generate a Miss Manners level response. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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tennoarashi, 2007-06-27 05:11 pm UTC

	spiralsheep 2007-06-27 05:15 pm UTC (link)
	I know you're a scans_daily regular so you've probably seen the panels in context but here are links in case you hadn't: http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4084/ff5471kg9.jpg http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1589/ff5472eq2.jpg (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

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tennoarashi, 2007-06-27 05:21 pm UTC

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karnythia, 2007-06-27 05:21 pm UTC

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lea_hazel, 2007-06-28 03:52 pm UTC

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furikku, 2007-06-28 04:46 pm UTC

skywardprodigal
2007-06-27 04:59 pm UTC (link)

People say rude things about Ororo's hair.

In part, it's because she's black.

The other part, is because she's gorgeous.

The other other part, is because it's white.

I recall her being brainwiped (temporarily) by Mesmer (iirc) and consigned to the carnival along with Piotr and some other x-folk. There were catty white bitches in the audience muttering about her bleaching her hair.

She's being written as a real woman. And real women have catty white folk (and other non-black folk) trying to touch/comment on their hair with alarming regularity. Apparently good manners only go so far when it comes to the appearance of some women in the opinions of way too many people. Good on Hudlin.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	thetathx1138 2007-06-28 02:35 am UTC (link)
	Yep, that was one of the '70s Claremonts. There were also sexist comments from the audience. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	skywardprodigal 2007-06-28 02:54 am UTC (link)
	~~Hudlin~~ McDuffie (Reply to this) (Parent)

	kazeneffera 2007-06-27 06:51 pm UTC (link)
	My problem isn't so much the fact that she's fending off a comment about her hair vehemently - that's all well and good. But would Storm really strike that pose while doing it? It's the pose in the second panel that's off for me, rather than the exchange itself. (Reply to this)

	manstreamcomics 2007-06-29 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	Regarding the hair-touching thing: we are reminded, vividly, of how we could practically see "Pickaninny" over Barbara Bush's head when she was fondling the heads of the two little girls evacuated after Katrina. (Reply to this)

THE LAST WORD (?)

manstreamcomics
2007-06-30 03:18 am UTC (link)

As the Manstreamer who posted this image, I'll reiterate my original stance: getting worked up over having your hair questioned may be a familiar experience for many African American women, but I find it uncharacteristic of Storm. Once you've shaved your skull into a mohawk, you learn to deal. Of course, you're all welcome to have your own interpretations of the character. Thanks for commenting.

86 comments. On hair. I'm impressed.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: THE LAST WORD (?) delux_vivens 2007-06-30 03:56 am UTC (link)
	I'm impressed. There's even whole books about black hair, if you're interested. (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: THE LAST WORD (?)

karnythia
2007-06-30 04:06 am UTC (link)

Actually the versatility of African American hair ensures that white people feel entitled to comment on hair texture color and length. Shaving one's head does not negate the invasiveness of the questioning. And learning to deal does not equal not reacting. Are you seriously trying to tell black women who have had similar experiences, and who are saying that the characterization is spot on that they don't know how a black woman would react?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

jkarabella, 2007-06-30 11:55 am UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

karnythia, 2007-06-30 12:27 pm UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

jkarabella, 2007-06-30 12:52 pm UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

delux_vivens, 2007-06-30 07:18 pm UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

jkarabella, 2007-06-30 11:40 pm UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - (Anonymous), 2007-07-04 10:44 am UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

delux_vivens, 2007-06-30 06:14 pm UTC

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) -

jkarabella, 2007-06-30 06:54 pm UTC

stop talking crazy talk. -

delux_vivens, 2007-06-30 07:11 pm UTC

Re: stop talking crazy talk. -

karnythia, 2007-06-30 07:13 pm UTC

Re: stop talking crazy talk. -

delux_vivens, 2007-06-30 07:16 pm UTC

	Re: THE LAST WORD (?) fourel 2007-06-30 05:45 am UTC (link)
	Once you've shaved your skull into a mohawk, you learn to deal. Does this rule also count for pregnant women and comments about their post-pregnancy weight? I mean, they've been heavier than usual before, they should be cool with it, right? (Reply to this) (Parent)

Re: THE LAST WORD (?) - (Anonymous), 2007-07-09 12:51 pm UTC

In Character, Out of Character

shadefell
2007-07-02 05:51 pm UTC (link)

For everyone complaining about Storm acting out of character, think about this for a minute.

For most of Storm's existence, she's been written by white males, right? She now has input from black females who live in the USA as black females and know first hand what black females go through.

Her reaction right now is apparently based directly on the experience and attitude of a black woman.

Is she acting out of character here, or is she finally acting in character? Does she now speak with more authenticity than before?

And just for the record, I'm a white chick with dark blonde hair and black eyebrows. I get a lot of strangers asking me if I dye my hair (when I do, it's very obvious because it's a color not found in nature) or darken my eyebrows. A woman once took my mother to task for putting mascara on me (I was 3) when I wasn't wearing any. When I had waist length hair, strangers would ask to touch it, or would just touch it without asking. Sometimes they'd give it a little tug. There is NOTHING like having your head suddenly jerked backwards because someone you've never met before has decided to pull your hair, just to check to see if it's firmly attached. CLASSY! People asked me if it was real, how long I'd been growing it, how often I got it cut, what my religion was, if I were Amish (because, y'know, Amish people normally wear jeans and Preacher t-shirts), lots of invasive questions. Basically, folks are assholes.

It's interesting to see people addressing Storm with petty, retarded questions about her physical appearance because every woman I know gets those same kind of petty, retarded questions... and men don't. It's also interesting to see how this is handled. I think it's a bit clumsy (it seems to be played for broad domestic humor), but it's a start.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: In Character, Out of Character

erlkonigvinz
2007-08-16 11:35 am UTC (link)

Hahahaha, they don't? THEY DON'T? Hahaha. Oh man, you must not know very many metalheads or punkers. Or ARMA members. It happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME with us. Almost exclusively the domain of older (40+) white women too. I swear if it weren't illegal, I would've genocided all the geriatric whiteys in the NE and midwest areas of the US. Well that and it would take an assload of time to do even if it were.

Ah well, I can content myself with the fact their social security is dwindling, and their medicaid is drying up. Eat my ass, boomers.
And as mentioned elsewhere in this thread by someone else, never had this happen in Europe anywhere. (then again guys with long hair are a lot more common and accepted there, while over here there's some sinister Puritan/corporate wackiness at work) Honestly I think because in their own lives it was so rare they've developed a nervous tic about it and can't resist. At least you can say something snide back. I have to put up with it because "it's unmanly to complain about something so petty." If I don't hide it under a big Texan hat they all come running (more like sidling/waddling) up cooing and awwing over it, wanting to play with it like I'm one of their fucking dollies.

Ya think Götz von Berlichingen put up with this? Saxo Grammaticus? Hermann von Salza? Jacques de Molay? Fuck no! But back then smacking the shit out of annoying/idiotic people wasn't illegal and wouldn't cost you your job. (or the ability to find a new one in my case) Now even basic discipline is illegal, and so you wind up with Bawbwa Walters and Rosie O'.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: In Character, Out of Character -

shadefell, 2007-08-16 02:07 pm UTC

Re: In Character, Out of Character -

erlkonigvinz, 2007-08-17 12:03 am UTC

Maybe this issue is specific to Storm, and not all black women
(Anonymous)
2007-11-07 06:04 am UTC (link)

[I hope this isn't too late to comment on.]

I vaguely remember a trade paperback comic with Byrne's work on the X-Men, when Kitty Pryde, Dazzler, and the Hellfire Club were first introduced. (And when Jean/Phoenix started acting bad, by changing Mr. Pryde's mind.) Kitty and Ororo were talking in a restaurant, and Kitty was inquiring about Ororo's hair and eyes. The facts that Ororo has white hair, straight hair, and blue eyes are unusual for black women; I guess that she has them because she's a mutant. So she gets questions that are a variant of what black women get, because of her unique situation. It gets worse for her because of the higher chance that her hair and eyes would be considered fake.

(Reply to this)

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